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problem 4383

 
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zuflower
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Joined: 28 Nov 2006
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:53 pm    Post subject: problem 4383 Reply with quote

problem 4383 - ANY MOVE GIVES OFF PATH BESIDE THE WHITE PAWN - WHATS WRONG
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mrmip
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Joined: 05 Nov 2005
Posts: 230
Location: Finland

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is simply because they are *Off path*.
Normally in a direct two mover no solution is given and any wrong tries are refuted automatically by applet. (Although her selection of variation after a correct key is sometimes dubious).

However, here the problem setter has chosen to give the correct key in solution tree. As a side effect Caissa will not try to refute the user tries, but simply says "Off path" - because now there is a user given path.
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papadoble
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Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 85
Location: Yerres, France

PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is not exactly the reason... not only is there a solution path but also the stipulation is "entered manually", so to speak.
I do not want to rely on the applet anymore, even for two-movers
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mrmip
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right you are, Papa - as usual. The real reason for 'off-paths' is that no 'big' stipulation was given. Only a verbal one in the heading. This causes the Caissa being silent.

I also made a sandbox test (problem 4468), where I gave the correct stipulation of mate in 2 and gave a wrong key,wrong defense and wrong mate in the solution tree.

Now Caissa performed correctly against any try not in the tree (no off paths). However, the solution tree seems to override Caissa's own logic. After the wrong key, she faithfully played the wrong defense and happily accepted the non-mate as 'Solved'.
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papadoble
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Joined: 15 Jan 2006
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Location: Yerres, France

PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is another argument against "big" stipulation and applet solving: ratings! Now I know I have hit your competitive string... Wink
What happens when you try to solve a 2- or 3-mover with no solution entered and enter a wrong key? You see a (usually) correct defense provided by the applet and realise you are going wron and therefore restart... until you effectively solve Laughing
Now of course adum said he would tackle this problem some time before 2020...
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